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#31 2013-01-11 20:49:41

jmf
Active Member
From: Edmonton
Registered: 2012-03-29
Posts: 200

Re: ivomec, ivermectin dosage

After a run in with mites this summer, and now annoying my hens by trying the oil-dipping technique to treat scaly leg mites, I bought some ivermectin from the pet pharmacy today (they don't sell eprinex). Here's a few things I learnt:

The pharmacist told me it was fine (and common) to use the injectable version as a topical on the back of the neck. It is twice as strong (10mg/ml) as the pour-on so the dose is halved. She recommended 1 drop/chicken. I asked her about the other, non-medicinal, ingredients and how they differed from the pour-on. She looked it up and found that the injectable contains 2 other ingredients, both of which are commonly used in skincare products and she said would be no problem to apply topically. I chose the injectable over the pour-on as it was available in a smaller, cheaper quantity.

I looked into withdrawal. Yes, a withdrawal period is recommended in cattle and swine. But here's my thinking: if I give my chicken 0.1ml (a rather large drop) that's a dose of 1mg drug (since the formula is sold at 10mg/ml). Now if we assume that 100% is absorbed, 0% is metabolized by the chicken, and 100% appears in the egg, then me eating that egg would give me an oral dose of 1mg. In a 50kg human. This is the equivalent of a 20ug/kg dose for me (the human).  Now ivermectin is very commonly used orally in humans to treat parasites such as scabies and worms etc at a dose of 200ug/kg, 10 times what I would be receiving from the egg.

So personally I don't feel afraid to eat the eggs (I only have 2 chickens so my maximum possible dose would be 2mg, or 40ug/kg). If I was pregnant or a small child I wouldn't eat them (since ivermectin isn't recommended for use in these groups). I also wouldn't give them to anyone else (except my husband :P).

I'm sure other people will disagree.

I'm looking forward to treating my hens tonight. I'm sure they will appreciate the end of the leg-dunking ritual :veryfunny:

btw, here's a link to a peer reviewed scientific study on the use of ivermectin in humans;
http://www.aafp.org/afp/2003/0915/p1089.html

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#32 2013-01-11 21:13:45

BC Buttercup
A.C.E. Addicted
From: British Columbia
Registered: 2012-12-14
Posts: 1018
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Re: ivomec, ivermectin dosage

My husband and I, as well as my cats, have been eating eggs from chickens treated with Eprinex for a number of years now (not continuously, of course). Your thought are my thoughts. I DO NOT SELL OUR EGGS, HOWEVER - just like you don't.

For the past 6 months we have been treating our flock 1 x month with Valbazen for tapeworm ... the only thing effective for us, besides Milbemax @ $11.00/pill (!!!). We have been eating those eggs, too, because otherwise I would have to throw all of them away. Like you, I would be more cautious if I were pregnant or wanted to be pregnant in the future.

One thing I do wonder, however: are we possibly creating drug resistant parasites in humans by exposing the parasites, which may be in our bodies, to a small dose to which they may develop resistance? :confused:


Rare Sicilian Buttercup chickens and Belgian Hare rabbits. Raising lamb for profit with Border Cheviot sheep.
... and yes, we still have the cows.

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#33 2013-01-11 21:40:11

killerbunny
I Love A.C.E.
From: Brockville, Ontario
Registered: 2012-07-30
Posts: 3178

Re: ivomec, ivermectin dosage

Our friend was given Ivermec when returning from a year in Malawi last year. It is signed off for specific cases in humans so I don't believe there would be a problem with eating the eggs.


Mixed collection of chickens, trio of Blue Columbian Wyandottes,BSW turkeys.
RIP Stephen, my BSW Tom and coffee companion. He left a great genetic legacy.
RIP Lucky the Very Brave splash Wyandotte rooster.
RIP little Muppet the rescue cat.

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#34 2013-01-11 21:49:49

Schipperkesue
Administrator
From: Carnwood, Alberta
Registered: 2010-04-08
Posts: 15562

Re: ivomec, ivermectin dosage

Fenbendazole also works for tapeworm.  How do you know your chickens have tapeworm?

Eprinex if not off label for chickens in other countries and there is no withdrawl time either.

I eat eggs from chickens that have been eprinexed.


Embrace your mistakes....they are life's most meaningful education.

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#35 2013-01-11 23:10:35

BC Buttercup
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From: British Columbia
Registered: 2012-12-14
Posts: 1018
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Re: ivomec, ivermectin dosage

You can see the tapeworm segments in the droppings. We do regular fecal floats with our vet and I have shown a dropping sample to Dr. Bill Cox, Poultry Vet at the Animal Health Branch of the BC Min. of Ag.

It is, unfortunately, tapeworm, and since my birds have not only access to a large run, but also free range, it is nearly impossible to get rid off ... unless I get rid of my birds or house them on wire. So, we decided to use the birds to try and eradicate the problem by making the birds toxic to any new worms that get into their GI tract, e.g. treating before the adult worms shed segments.

The tapeworms we are dealing with appear to be resistant to fenbendazole. Egg count was still very high after repeated treatments with a double dose of Panacur.

I infested our land a few years ago by bringing in three adult hens from a friend who was moving. STUPID! It did worm and dust the birds, and even quarantined them, but that didn't get rid of the tapeworms they had ... :angry2:

I knew Eprinex had no withdrawal period for cows, and its safe to drink their milk. Good to know that in other countries there is no withdrawal for "eprinexed" eggs :thumbsup:

Last edited by BC Buttercup (2013-01-11 23:12:26)


Rare Sicilian Buttercup chickens and Belgian Hare rabbits. Raising lamb for profit with Border Cheviot sheep.
... and yes, we still have the cows.

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#36 2013-01-11 23:30:52

Schipperkesue
Administrator
From: Carnwood, Alberta
Registered: 2010-04-08
Posts: 15562

Re: ivomec, ivermectin dosage

Lovely.  :duh:

I use fenbendazole on the dogs and it is the only thing that keeps the tapeworms away.  The dogs eat mice and the mice are infested.  I am wondering about the logic of worming the mice?  You know it never hurts to look at something from another perspective!


Embrace your mistakes....they are life's most meaningful education.

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#37 2013-01-11 23:47:36

CynthiaM
I Love A.C.E.
From: Grindrod, B.C. Okanagan
Registered: 2009-08-19
Posts: 5313

Re: ivomec, ivermectin dosage

Schipperkesue wrote:

Fenbendazole also works for tapeworm.  How do you know your chickens have tapeworm?

Eprinex if not off label for chickens in other countries and there is no withdrawl time either.

I eat eggs from chickens that have been eprinexed.

Fenbendazole is basically panacur.  Have an awesome day, CynthiaM.


Two breeding groups of large fowl -- blue, splash and black cochins and buff orpingtons.     Located one half hour north of Vernon.  Also a keeper of the honeybees.

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#38 2013-01-11 23:54:12

CynthiaM
I Love A.C.E.
From: Grindrod, B.C. Okanagan
Registered: 2009-08-19
Posts: 5313

Re: ivomec, ivermectin dosage

Valbazen is certainly one drug that I have heard to be used for tapeworm in chicken.  Valbazen is albendazole.  Fenbendazole (panacur) is one that will rid gapeworm.  This is a very useful discussion.  I bet there are more chickens infected with tapeworm than we realize.  Chickens are exposed to many hosts of tapeworms, they eat these hosts, right?  Have an awesome day, CynthiaM.


Two breeding groups of large fowl -- blue, splash and black cochins and buff orpingtons.     Located one half hour north of Vernon.  Also a keeper of the honeybees.

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#39 2013-01-12 00:31:03

BC Buttercup
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From: British Columbia
Registered: 2012-12-14
Posts: 1018
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Re: ivomec, ivermectin dosage

Yes, Panacur is the brand name for fenbendazole, and its used as dewormer for everything from cats, dogs, horses, and cows, and ...?

Tapeworm perpetuates itself by the chickens depositing droppings with tapeworm segments on and in them. These segments are full of eggs. Critters like earth worms, beetles, ants, ect ingest the egg and serve as intermediate host for the tapeworm, which are eaten, in turn, by chickens and thereby complete the cycle.

Tapeworm is devastating in young birds and probably not too great for adults. It is absolutely disgusting to see the chicken's droppings full of the segments, which still move when the droppings are fresh. As the droppings cool, the segments contract into little semi-translucent pearls. Most wormers, including Eprinex or Ivermectin are useless for treating tapeworm. Valbazen (a special order from my vet) and Milbemax (cat dewormer) was the only thing that helped us.


Rare Sicilian Buttercup chickens and Belgian Hare rabbits. Raising lamb for profit with Border Cheviot sheep.
... and yes, we still have the cows.

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#40 2013-01-12 01:34:12

Susan
Moderator
From: Saskatoon
Registered: 2010-05-31
Posts: 4285

Re: ivomec, ivermectin dosage

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/11 … 68/related

This link is for Ivermectin treatment in falcons. I realize they are not chickens, but are a lot more closely related that cows and swine. It recommends 2-3mg/ kg Ivermectin per bird. If you have injectable 10mg/ ml or pour on 5mg/ml, and say the bird you are dosing is 3 kg ( a large fowl), you would need between 6-9 mg ivermectin for said bird. That is almost one ml of injectable, and closer to two mls of pour on. My  point is that I worry people are under dosing their birds. ( and no, ivermectin does not work on tapeworms)


Owned by my birds! Euskal Oiloak, Hungarian Yellows, Bantam Frizzles, Saxony Ducks, and a whole lot more :)

The more I learn, the less I know.

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#41 2013-01-13 01:57:19

Susan
Moderator
From: Saskatoon
Registered: 2010-05-31
Posts: 4285

Re: ivomec, ivermectin dosage

:Bump: wondered if there are any thoughts on the dosage I have suggested?


Owned by my birds! Euskal Oiloak, Hungarian Yellows, Bantam Frizzles, Saxony Ducks, and a whole lot more :)

The more I learn, the less I know.

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#42 2013-01-13 04:18:45

BC Buttercup
A.C.E. Addicted
From: British Columbia
Registered: 2012-12-14
Posts: 1018
Website

Re: ivomec, ivermectin dosage

Sorry Susan ... I was going to, but when the thread was marked as a "Sticky" I wasn't sure if I should post anything else.

I think you make an extremely valid point, and I have often wondered if the "one drop for small bird" and "two drops for big bird" dosage suggestion wasn't a bit vague - leaving our birds insufficiently treated and possibly contributing to Ivermectin resistant parasites?

We weigh each bird before worming and draw up the medication in a 1.0 ml syringe. Next time we use Eprinex again I will use the dosage ratio suggested for the treatment of falcons. Thank you for finding and posting the link.


Rare Sicilian Buttercup chickens and Belgian Hare rabbits. Raising lamb for profit with Border Cheviot sheep.
... and yes, we still have the cows.

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#43 2013-01-13 04:31:19

BC Buttercup
A.C.E. Addicted
From: British Columbia
Registered: 2012-12-14
Posts: 1018
Website

Re: ivomec, ivermectin dosage

Here is another link RE dosage of Ivermectin for chickens: http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index … 204710.htm

The Merk Veterinary Manual suggests a dose of 1.8 - 5.4 mg/kg systemic Ivermecting for the treatment of mites. This is really close to the dosage of 2-3 mg/kg suggested for falcons, posted by Susan. It is mentioned, however, that the high dosage is close to toxic levels to chickens (I imagine this refers to the 5.4mg/kg).


Rare Sicilian Buttercup chickens and Belgian Hare rabbits. Raising lamb for profit with Border Cheviot sheep.
... and yes, we still have the cows.

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#44 2013-01-13 05:14:16

Princesszelda
A.C.E. Addicted
From: Vernon, BC
Registered: 2013-01-09
Posts: 341

Re: ivomec, ivermectin dosage

This info is very timely.  Since my hens are more or less on strike, this would be a good opportunity to check them for parasites and dose them if they need it.  I check the poo board under the roosts when I clean it in the mornings, and I haven't observed anything out of the ordinary (nothing has coiled up or waved at me). Is the float test something I could do?  My grandchildren might let me borrow their microscope.


_______________

Columbian and Plymouth Rocks and Silkie chickens and Ridley Bronze turkeys, a guard guinea,  Collie, 4 cats. DH and ten zillion pocket gophers.  Also a few goats that are extraordinarily cute

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#45 2013-01-13 19:21:01

jmf
Active Member
From: Edmonton
Registered: 2012-03-29
Posts: 200

Re: ivomec, ivermectin dosage

Thanks for the excellent information, I think I'll give my girls a little more today as I only gave about 0.3mg/kg yesterday. And who knew there was such as thing as the Falcon Research Hospital?!! Fascinating!

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