AlbertaChickensEtc

Canadian Poultry Forum Chickens, Eggs, Cattle, Goats, Sheep, Horses, Pets - Across Canada For Sale And Want Ads Forum - Register - Login - And Come On In - Post Your Ad Or Just Chat! image

You are not logged in.

Announcement

A.C.E. Now Has Over THREE THOUSAND Members across Canada! Find Your Province And Say Hello To Us! ALL MEMBERS ARE TO INCLUDE THEIR LOCATION IN THEIR PROFILE .... CLICK ON "PROFILE" ON THE TOP BLUE BAR THEN CLICK ON "PERSONAL" image PRIVATE MESSAGING AND USER LIST WILL NOT BE AVAILABLE TO NEW MEMBERS UNTIL THEIR STATUS BECOMES GROWING MEMBER.
  • Index
  •  » Hospital
  •  » Injecting eggs and mycoplasma (GREAT MG discussion re:Lincospectin)

#16 2014-02-23 23:57:58

bcboy
I Love A.C.E.
From: Vernon
Registered: 2012-06-18
Posts: 1732
Website

Re: Injecting eggs and mycoplasma (GREAT MG discussion re:Lincospectin)

Schipperkesue wrote:

Linco is for CHICKS as a PREVENTATIVE,  Denegard for ADULTS as a TREATMENT/CURE

Tegaan, I take my birds to shows and and purchase/trade birds from outside sources.  I quarantine birds that arrive.  I treat any problems that show up and use the Linco as a preventative because the birds that go to shows are exposed to other birds that do have issues.

I find an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

I have never encountered antibiotic resistance in any of my animals.  I think the key is to follow the instructions on the package most scrupulously.  Resistance happens when the correct strengths are not used and when treatment time is shortened.  It is important to understand how antibiotics work.  If you treat a strength of antibiotic that is below recommended levels or until the symptoms merely disappear and do not complete the skull course of treatment you may develop resistance.

So if I use Linco on my new chicks they still could contract Mycoplasma later on in life if I have open runs and let then free range? Then I could use Denegard to treat and cure the Mycoplasma. Will those that have been cured with Denegard still carry Mycoplasma and if so can pass onto the rest of your flock?
Just trying to wrap my head around this.:hide:

Offline

 

#17 2014-02-24 00:15:42

bcboy
I Love A.C.E.
From: Vernon
Registered: 2012-06-18
Posts: 1732
Website

Re: Injecting eggs and mycoplasma (GREAT MG discussion re:Lincospectin)

moose wrote:

I am getting some hatching eggs next week and I am concerned about mycoplasma. I have read that you can inject the eggs with Tylosin in the aircell of the egg on the 9th day of incubation. Has anyone ever tried this or know the correct dosage? It say 2.5mg for Tylosin but not sure what that is in ml. I also have Denagard. Is that better to use?

So I would like to read what you have. Please PM me.plz

Offline

 

#18 2014-02-24 00:52:32

Schipperkesue
Administrator
From: Carnwood, Alberta
Registered: 2010-04-08
Posts: 15545

Re: Injecting eggs and mycoplasma (GREAT MG discussion re:Lincospectin)

bcboy wrote:

So if I use Linco on my new chicks they still could contract Mycoplasma later on in life if I have open runs and let then free range? Then I could use Denegard to treat and cure the Mycoplasma. Will those that have been cured with Denegard still carry Mycoplasma and if so can pass onto the rest of your flock?
Just trying to wrap my head around this.:hide:

According to the research on the drug, Linco Spectin, if you follow the proper protocol with the drug when the chicks are hatched and then 4 weeks they will never contract Myco.  They will never get it, ever, as long as they live.  You will never have to use Denegard to treat Myco in the chicks hat have had the correct drug protocol. 

Now, I am not sure what happens if said chicks are then exposed to Myco in the environment.  Will they carry it?  I don't know...that would be a question for the manufacturer.  My guess would be no.


Embrace your mistakes....they are life's most meaningful education.

Offline

 

#19 2014-02-24 01:18:55

bcboy
I Love A.C.E.
From: Vernon
Registered: 2012-06-18
Posts: 1732
Website

Re: Injecting eggs and mycoplasma (GREAT MG discussion re:Lincospectin)

Schipperkesue wrote:

According to the research on the drug, Linco Spectin, if you follow the proper protocol with the drug when the chicks are hatched and then 4 weeks they will never contract Myco. They will never get it, ever, as long as they live.

So that is one dose when chicks are hatched and one at 4 weeks? Two doses total? Will this work if the hens that laid the eggs have Myco in the first place or will you have to wash or inject the eggs with Tylosin first?

Sorry Moose for asking all these questions in your thread. :hide:
Here is one link that I found about injecting Tylosin.
http://www.ufrgs.br/actavet/33-2/artigo616.pdf
Here is one more link that I have found.
http://www.octagon-services.co.uk/artic … iotics.htm
One more..
http://ijabbr.com/upload/IJABBR-2014-V2-M12.pdf
one more...
http://www.octagon-services.co.uk/artic … plasma.htm

Last edited by bcboy (2014-02-24 02:39:01)

Offline

 

#20 2014-02-24 01:32:53

Schipperkesue
Administrator
From: Carnwood, Alberta
Registered: 2010-04-08
Posts: 15545

Re: Injecting eggs and mycoplasma (GREAT MG discussion re:Lincospectin)

I think Moose wants to prevent Myco in his chicks.  All your questions address this, BCBoy.

You use 1/4 tsp/ litre of water for the first 3-5 days after hatch, then a booster, same concentration, in the water for 1-2 days, 4 weeks later.   Apparently Linco-Spectin will prevent Myco for a lifetime.  I don't know about eggs from infected hens.  This is a question for the manufacturer.


Embrace your mistakes....they are life's most meaningful education.

Offline

 

#21 2014-02-24 02:40:52

bcboy
I Love A.C.E.
From: Vernon
Registered: 2012-06-18
Posts: 1732
Website

Re: Injecting eggs and mycoplasma (GREAT MG discussion re:Lincospectin)

Cut & Paste. Thank-You DAFox.

When I was dealing with a possible outbreak of MG, Kathyinmo and I were PMing information back and forth.  This is one of the PMs that Kathy sent me.  It was from a thread here.  I can't remember the exact thread name.  I use Denagard now on a monthly basis.  Eggs and chicks "should" be MG free.  I have not had any tested, but, since starting the prevention program, I haven't had any symptoms.

Sonoran Silkies wrote:
Boring Farm wrote:
...they have CRD, Chronic Respiratory Disease, caused by Mycoplasma bacteria that is considered to be one of the smallest cell bacteria that has no walls, where no antibiotic will cure and then it acts like a virus, only rearing its ugly head when your birds are stressed, over heated, cold, or during molt.  I was hoping I could successfully treat them with two antibiotics, terramycin and streptomycin, but within the last two days they have started to show mucus around the nostrils and as of today, one has reverted to a pneumonia like symptoms, coughing, gurgling, swollen face and frothy eyes.
...
From a very recent post on another website "I also found the articles about Mycoplasma interesting, as he talks about Tiammutin (Denagard) as an effective treatment
http://www.octagon-services.co.uk/artic … plasma.htm

http://www.octagon-services.co.uk/artic … tivity.htm


Mycoplasma is present in 75% - 89% of ALL flocks, both commercial and private according to Dr. Scott Jones at the Baron Diagnostic Lab in Wisconsin. If you have bought birds from somewhere else or birds were previously raised on your property, it is highly likely that you have Mycoplasma in your birds. Most people never know it, as symptoms usually do not appear unless the flock is under stress. Common symptoms are decrease in egg production, also embyo and chick mortality (Mycoplasma can be transmitted via egg). Mycoplasma It is extremely hard to treat but Tiamulin (sold as Denagard) is a very effective antibiotic, especially against bacterial respiratory diseases. Denagard has the added advantage of having zero withdrawal period for eggs as it is unrelated to any antibiotic used in humans. You can read more about it here:

http://www.tiamutin.com/vet-poultry/fir … tion.shtml

I ordered it from QC Supply. http://www.qcsupply.com/
I keep it on hand as an effective broad spectrum antibiotic that is available without Rx. It can also be used as a preventative against Mycoplasma. Dosage instructions;

Preventative is 8cc's to a gallon of water
Treatment is almost double the preventative dosage, 15cc's to a gallon of water.

Give as only water for 3-5 days, repeat in 3 weeks

If breeding for chicks with your birds, I would do the treatment dosage for the 5 days, then again in 3 weeks reduce dosage to 12cc per gallon. (Denagard given to breeding hens prevents transmission via egg)

Don't exceed the 15cc's to a gallon of water, it can harm kidneys.  Denagard is bitter, if your birds wont drink it add a bit of sugar to the water

Make sure you are not using medicated feeds. Chick starter with Amprolium in it IS SAFE to use with the Denagard, the Tiamutin site lists the drugs that are safe to use with it. You dont want to use other antibiotics at the same time as antibiotics can be hard on the birds kidneys"

I've since read up on it; sounds very promising.  And note that it is a bacteriacide.

Last edited by bcboy (2014-02-28 11:05:14)

Offline

 

#22 2014-02-24 06:23:10

toybarons
I Love A.C.E.
From: Parkland County, AB
Registered: 2008-08-05
Posts: 3149

Re: Injecting eggs and mycoplasma (GREAT MG discussion re:Lincospectin)

First and formost: MG is a disease that many now believe can be found in most flocks. My opinion from having been part of many talks about MG: There is no one, single opinion agreed on in how to prevent or treat MG. Any talk about MG is like opening up the poultry can-o-worms. Here's why.

Back in the day, there was only one treatment for any bird thought to have MG and that was to kill it. If you treat a bird showing symptoms, and it get's better, you have a carrier that can potentially infect a healthy bird.

Today's poultry keeper doesn't necessarily cull infected birds. Unlike some disease, you can have birds serum tested by having a vet draw blood and having it tested for MG. If the results come back positive, as MG is not a reportable disease, the results are kept between you & the vet. No one else needs to know. You can then take steps yourself on how you care for your flock. Expensive? Yes. I know some who have argued why even bother going to look for the disease if you don't have a sick bird? Simple. It's called preventative medicine.

MG does pass from infected hens into fertile eggs. One treated is using the dip. As I mentioned, you dip the eggs and then the chicks can be tested to see if the are MG free. Then infected stock is culled. Bloodlines are not lost. Linco-Spectin is given to the chicks from day 0 to 5 days and then repeated again later. The idea is this will prevent MG.  Linco-Spectin is a fairly new product being on the market in Canada for a few years now. It looks promising. The last is vaccine. There is a vaccine to treat MG. It is readily available in the US and can be ordered online from many online supply stores. Again, Canada being Canada, we can't get our hands on it. Some have told me only commercial operations can get MG vaccine. Others say you can buy it like the ILT vaccine, in flats, which makes it unrealistic for someone just with a few birds to do. Best bet would be to use dipping or Linco-Spectin.

As for flock owners. I'm not saying this to be harsh towards anyone. Nor do I want to create a flame with my comments. For a few years now, forums like this one have had many talks about new birds infecting their flocks claiming it was MG. You have those who only believe in using holistic medicine. Those who argue why go looking for the disease if you don't actually see a sick bird in the frst place. Those who say my birds are too valueable to just put down so I'm going to treat them regardless. Those who don't believe in man-made medicine. I know some individuals who have gone that step, who are now having their flocks tested because they wish to become responsible breeders and don't want MG in their flocks and they don't want the birds they sell to possibly pass MG into someone else flock. Yet these are the people who are being scrunitized by others who can't figure out why treat for a disease if you have no proof you have a problem?

My understanding is MG can infect a bird that has been treated for the disease. You want to keep MG out of your flock, the best thing you can do is to prevent it from being introduced. Wild birds are the biggest source of transmitting CRDs in general. Don't place feed or water outside where wild birds can get to it. If you have outdoor runs and still want to offer food & water: Use a waterer with a nipple. They are easy to make out of pails with covers so nothing can contaminate the water. Food can be kept in a feeder that needs to be stepped on in order to get to the food. Best is use 1" wire for your outdoor runs: expensive but no bird will be ableto fly into your runs.  Don't interchange feeder & waters between coops. Always use the same waters & feeders in the same coops. This can help cut down on spreading MG amongst coops. Properly sterilize old water & feeders before using them in new coops. The use of a boot wash helps in preventing not only MG but many other diseases.

The way we think has to change. Don't rest your faith that because you love your chickens, your poultry, your flock, and that you do your best to keep them healthy means that the seller you are getting eggs, chicks or birds feels as you do. ASK QUESTIONS if health and diseases like MG are a concern to you. YOU NEED TO ASK! If a seller tells you to simply quaratine a bird for 30 days and if it doesn't become sick you're good, NOT NECESSARILY SO. Be aware that disease is often triggered by stress in a new enviroment. If MG is of a concern, ask if the seller has ever treated for a CRD? If the seller becomes offended, DON'T BUY FROM THEM! EDUCATE YOURSELF. Too many today seem to believe chickens either can't or don't become sick. If you choose to treat either to prevent or to cure MG, that is YOUR CHOICE. However, if you plan to sell you birds, let the buyer know that you're bird was treated for CRDs. As I said, MG is not a reportable disease, so the government isn't going to come knocking on your door to take your flock away if you tell a buyer you have treated for CRD. Most buyers really don't seem to mind. Some who do will thank you for being honest with them. I know a few who will simply just ask to buy your eggs cause they will simply dip them as a prevenative.

We flock owners have got to start stepping up for the health of our flocks.
People who don't want to treat with drugs can easily reduce the chance of MG simply by using common sense by keeping wild birds away from their flocks food & water sources. Reduce the interaction further by using runs built with 1" wire. Use of boot wash. Use the same water & feeders in the same coops: don't interchange them. If you do, sterilize them before use. Quaratine new birds and keep them in a calm enviroment. Use probiotocs to keep them healthy while they adjust to their new homes.
For those of us who have no problem using drugs: all of the above. Add to it this.
If you believe you have birds that might be carriers, you don't have to cull if you don't want to. However, be responsible. Don't sell them. Keep them as breeders, but use either an egg dip or Linco-Spectin to treat your chicks and then house your chicks AWAY FROM any suspected stock that might carrier MG or any other CRD. It isn't hard to do either. Wash your hands between handling clean chicks and adult stock.
We all know you can use Tylan to treat a sick bird.
You can also use Tylan to prevent a bird from becoming sick too. Tyaln can be used to treat stress both chicks and adult birds. The mix ratio is half of what you use to treat a sick bird. You give it for 5 days as a preventative. I've used it myself and it does help.

No apoligizes if my post is rather long. I feel we have danced this MG dance all too often. We need to admit that MG is likely not only in our flocks but we could unknowingly be passing it around. I think it's time we start to collective address and take steps to start preventing it before government steps in and adds MG to the list of reportable diseases. And the old "Kill it, Shovel it, Bury it and Keep your mouth shut" solves nothing.


Taking things a day at a time.

Online

 

#23 2014-02-24 06:46:46

debbiej
I Love A.C.E.
From: Vancouver Island BC
Registered: 2010-04-01
Posts: 6054

Re: Injecting eggs and mycoplasma (GREAT MG discussion re:Lincospectin)

Tegaan wrote:

Why would you want to treat for something that you don't necessarily have? Doesn't that lead to antibiotic resistance?

Kari

:iagree:


Euskal Oiloa,  Dorkings,  Guinea Fowl , 2 Boston Terriers & 1 Rottweiler

Offline

 

#24 2014-02-24 09:31:41

bcboy
I Love A.C.E.
From: Vernon
Registered: 2012-06-18
Posts: 1732
Website

Re: Injecting eggs and mycoplasma (GREAT MG discussion re:Lincospectin)

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ps044

This is a cut and paste from the above link.

Mycoplasma gallisepticum

Synonyms: MG, chronic respiratory disease (CRD), infectious sinusitis, mycoplasmosis

Species affected: chickens, turkeys, pigeons, ducks, peafowl and passerine birds.

Clinical signs: Clinical symptoms vary slightly between species. Infected adult chickens may show no outward signs if infection is uncomplicated. However, sticky, serous exudate from nostrils, foamy exudate in eyes, and swollen sinuses can occur, especially in broilers. The air sacs may become infected. Infected birds can develop respiratory rales and sneeze. Affected birds are often stunted and unthrifty (see Table 1).

There are two forms of this disease in the turkey. With the "upper form" the birds have watery eyes and nostrils, the infraorbitals (just below the eye) become swollen, and the exudate becomes caseous and firm. The birds have respiratory rales and show unthriftiness.

With the "lower form", infected turkeys develop airsacculitis. As with chickens, birds can show no outward signs if the infection is uncomplicated. Thus, the condition may go unnoticed until the birds are slaughtered and the typical legions are seen. Birds with airsacculitis are condemned.

MG in chicken embryos can cause dwarfing, airsacculitis, and death.

Transmission: MG can be spread to offspring through the egg. Most commercial breeding flocks, however, are MG-free. Introduction of infected replacement birds can introduce the disease to MG-negative flocks. MG can also be spread by using MG-contaminated equipment.

Treatment : Outbreaks of MG can be controlled with the use of antibiotics. Erythromycin, tylosin, spectinomycin, and lincomycin all exhibit anti-mycoplasma activity and have given good results. Administration of most of these antibiotics can be by feed, water or injection. These are effective in reducing clinical disease. However, birds remain carriers for life.

Prevention: Eradication is the best control of mycoplasma disease. The National Poultry Improvement Plan monitors all participating chicken and turkey breeder flocks.

and passerine birds.they say. (Animals) of, relating to, or belonging to the Passeriformes, an order of birds characterized by the perching habit: includes the larks, finches, crows, thrushes, starlings, etc.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passerine
Passerines

Roughly 100 families, around 5,400 species

A passerine is a bird of the order Passeriformes, which includes more than half of all bird species. A notable feature of passerines is the arrangement of their toes (three pointing forward and one back) which facilitates perching. Sometimes known as perching birds or, less accurately, as songbirds, the passerines form one of the most diverse terrestrial vertebrate orders, with over 5,000 identified species.[1] It has roughly twice as many species as the largest of the mammal orders, the Rodentia. It contains more than 110 families, the second most of any order of vertebrates (after the Perciformes).

The names "passerines" and "Passeriformes" are derived from Passer domesticus, the scientific name of the eponymous species (the House Sparrow) and ultimately from the Latin term passer for Passer sparrows and similar small birds.


So the scariest part of this is that 5,400 species have Mycoplasma gallisepticum in the wild. So even if your birds have a closed run with 1" hardware cloth or small netting bird feces and their air born particles still can enter your run. :duh:

So it sounds like Mycoplasma gallisepticum is the never ending war because of the wild bird population, scarey...:hide:

http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/ahc/poultry/MG.Infection.pdf
Here is a cut and paste from the above link.

It is known that
Mycoplasmas
can survive for some
time on certain substrates. For example,
Mycoplasma
gallisepticum
has been shown to survive for up to
3 days in chicken droppings at 20° C or in egg
yolk for up to 6 weeks at 20° C. Th e organism was
discovered to be viable after 2 days on straw, cotton,
and rubber. So, after a fl ock has been infected with
MG, it is essential that a thorough clean up be
carried out to ensure that the organism has been
eliminated. Furthermore, it is important to know
that, with such survivability on inanimate objects,
MG can be carried from one premises to another by
people or equipment.

Last edited by bcboy (2014-02-24 09:48:42)

Offline

 

#25 2014-02-24 12:28:32

chitaquarott
A.C.E. Addicted
From: spencerville, ontario
Registered: 2008-05-30
Posts: 1310

Re: Injecting eggs and mycoplasma (GREAT MG discussion re:Lincospectin)

And who sells this product in Canada?? I would give it a whirl instead of the dip if it works.


Home of dark brahma standards, black langshan,  ameracauna, buff orpington, coronation sussex, australorp, bourbon red turkeys, naragansett,  jersey giants, sebastopol geese, two quarter horses and Berkshire pigs and highland heifers

Please email directly vs. Pm Please.   chitaquarott@ripnet.com

Offline

 

#26 2014-02-24 13:10:23

Schipperkesue
Administrator
From: Carnwood, Alberta
Registered: 2010-04-08
Posts: 15545

Re: Injecting eggs and mycoplasma (GREAT MG discussion re:Lincospectin)

chitaquarott wrote:

And who sells this product in Canada?? I would give it a whirl instead of the dip if it works.

If you are talking about Linco-Spectin, in Alberta you can request it from your vet.


Embrace your mistakes....they are life's most meaningful education.

Offline

 

#27 2014-02-24 14:38:09

killerbunny
I Love A.C.E.
From: Brockville, Ontario
Registered: 2012-07-30
Posts: 3141

Re: Injecting eggs and mycoplasma (GREAT MG discussion re:Lincospectin)

chitaquarott wrote:

And who sells this product in Canada?? I would give it a whirl instead of the dip if it works.

Currently in Ontario there is an outbreak of MG in housefinches. Rescue centres are treating and then releasing the birds. This means there is a potantial reservoir of infection especially around our small flocks (contaminated bird feeders etc) I too would give this a try because of potentail cross species infection.


Mixed collection of chickens, trio of Blue Columbian Wyandottes,BSW turkeys.
RIP Stephen, my BSW Tom and coffee companion. He left a great genetic legacy.
RIP Lucky the Very Brave splash Wyandotte rooster.
RIP little Muppet the rescue cat.

Offline

 

#28 2014-02-24 15:39:43

toybarons
I Love A.C.E.
From: Parkland County, AB
Registered: 2008-08-05
Posts: 3149

Re: Injecting eggs and mycoplasma (GREAT MG discussion re:Lincospectin)

Schipperkesue wrote:

chitaquarott wrote:

And who sells this product in Canada?? I would give it a whirl instead of the dip if it works.

If you are talking about Linco-Spectin, in Alberta you can request it from your vet.

I would think the same thing in any province. Just find a vet who can order you some.


Taking things a day at a time.

Online

 

#29 2014-02-24 15:54:02

toybarons
I Love A.C.E.
From: Parkland County, AB
Registered: 2008-08-05
Posts: 3149

Re: Injecting eggs and mycoplasma (GREAT MG discussion re:Lincospectin)

killerbunny wrote:

chitaquarott wrote:

And who sells this product in Canada?? I would give it a whirl instead of the dip if it works.

Currently in Ontario there is an outbreak of MG in housefinches. Rescue centres are treating and then releasing the birds. This means there is a potantial reservoir of infection especially around our small flocks (contaminated bird feeders etc) I too would give this a try because of potentail cross species infection.

This is what I find so frustrating. It also supports what bcboy said in his post about the virus being on the dander of carrier birds. If chickens were not a food bird, I don't think we would even be batting an eye about MG. We would treat and go on with our lives. Except we all know that eventually someone is going to post how they lost their flock to a sick bird they won't have tested but will claimed it must have had MG. Frustrating :duh:


Taking things a day at a time.

Online

 

#30 2014-02-24 17:09:20

moose
Growing Member
From: Okanagan
Registered: 2013-01-15
Posts: 47

Re: Injecting eggs and mycoplasma (GREAT MG discussion re:Lincospectin)

Very informative! I will be passing this info along to my landlard. Shes always worried about picking up Mycoplasma in her breeding flock. For me its about preventing it. I think I will try the egg dip.

Offline

 
  • Index
  •  » Hospital
  •  » Injecting eggs and mycoplasma (GREAT MG discussion re:Lincospectin)

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB
Hosted by PunBB-Hosting