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  •  » Secrets: re any new treatments for biting lice? thread

#1 2014-12-20 18:29:09

yardbirds
Administrator
From: just north of Yorkton, Sk
Registered: 2011-08-02
Posts: 9568

Secrets: re any new treatments for biting lice? thread

MADE THIS A STICKY

Schipperkesue wrote:

Andy has reported back to me regarding my request for information about Moxidectin

He says go to this site and look at Secret #2.  He says I will also like Secret #1

http://www.mclaughlinlofts.com/Secrets_.html

What do you think, Cynthia?

ADDED BY SCHIPPERKESUE: remember US and Canadian gallons are different.  4 US gallons = 64 cups


Soldier of Tolerance

[ If you consider yourself a "gift" to all you share your life with....I promise you will always give your best.... ]

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#2 2014-12-20 19:44:28

lady leghorn
I Love A.C.E.
From: Okanagan Falls B.C.
Registered: 2011-10-26
Posts: 3319

Re: Secrets: re any new treatments for biting lice? thread

EXTREMELY interesting.    Do pigeon breeders sell any of the products we can't get in Canada at the shows here?   They seem to have all sorts of unusual things at the shows.

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#3 2014-12-20 20:40:49

Schipperkesue
Administrator
From: Carnwood, Alberta
Registered: 2010-04-08
Posts: 15558

Re: Secrets: re any new treatments for biting lice? thread

I like secret 29.  Wood pellets for a pellet stove are cheap and extremely absorbant.  I occasionally throw a bag or two over my deep litter.


Embrace your mistakes....they are life's most meaningful education.

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#4 2014-12-20 20:51:19

GalaBoys
Banned
From: Alberta
Registered: 2014-01-14
Posts: 2298

Re: Secrets: re any new treatments for biting lice? thread

You can get most any product online these days.


Gala Partridge Chanteclers - see us on facebook
Maker of chicken saddles, fan of evidence-based poultry keeping.
2018 St. Paul Critter Market - May 19, 2018 - find our group on facebook

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#5 2014-12-20 21:28:09

GalaBoys
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From: Alberta
Registered: 2014-01-14
Posts: 2298

Re: Secrets: re any new treatments for biting lice? thread

I would caution against the use of moxidectin for any animal. Having spent a fair chunk of time studying livestock medicine in college, and another fair chunk of time selling livestock medicines, moxidectin (Quest) is not a product I will use here, nor would I recommend its use to others.

Unlike other dewormers, moxidectin has a very low safety margin. Only a little bit extra can and will kill your animal. Countless people have killed their entire goat herds, or a prized foal, or a miniature horse, simply by guessing the weight wrong.

Unless you're willing to weigh every single chicken and dose each by mouth according to its weight, moxidectin should not be used.

Vets advise doing a fecal float test to see what parasites may be circulating in your flock, and then treating the specific parasite(s). Vets usually charge about $25 for this.

Vets also advise rotating between products, if you aren't doing floats. Ivermectin (eprinex/ivomec/noromectin), piperazine, and fenbendazole (SafeGuard) all have large safety margins and are widely available.


Gala Partridge Chanteclers - see us on facebook
Maker of chicken saddles, fan of evidence-based poultry keeping.
2018 St. Paul Critter Market - May 19, 2018 - find our group on facebook

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#6 2014-12-21 10:32:05

thedwightguy
Growing Member
From: Salmon Arm, BC
Registered: 2014-10-06
Posts: 12

Re: Secrets: re any new treatments for biting lice? thread

GalaBoys wrote:

You can get most any product online these days.

And that's exactly what worries me.
(I saw your other post on caution when using medication)
We had just his problem on our fish hobby site. Some of our own SPONSORS were selling a medication and a member with a brain calculated it was the wrong dosage. Since it was actually designed for swine, you had to figure out the dosage yourself if you bought it online, and you can imagine the accidents that happened with that program! As you said, people have lost their entire herds thinking if a little is good, then a lot would be....oops.

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#7 2014-12-21 14:06:12

CynthiaM
I Love A.C.E.
From: Grindrod, B.C. Okanagan
Registered: 2009-08-19
Posts: 5313

Re: Secrets: re any new treatments for biting lice? thread

GalaBoys wrote:

I would caution against the use of moxidectin for any animal. Having spent a fair chunk of time studying livestock medicine in college, and another fair chunk of time selling livestock medicines, moxidectin (Quest) is not a product I will use here, nor would I recommend its use to others.

Unlike other dewormers, moxidectin has a very low safety margin. Only a little bit extra can and will kill your animal. Countless people have killed their entire goat herds, or a prized foal, or a miniature horse, simply by guessing the weight wrong.

Unless you're willing to weigh every single chicken and dose each by mouth according to its weight, moxidectin should not be used.

Vets advise doing a fecal float test to see what parasites may be circulating in your flock, and then treating the specific parasite(s). Vets usually charge about $25 for this.

Vets also advise rotating between products, if you aren't doing floats. Ivermectin (eprinex/ivomec/noromectin), piperazine, and fenbendazole (SafeGuard) all have large safety margins and are widely available.

Sheesh, just when I thought it was safe to come out of the water, smiling that big smile.  I am absolutely re-thinking moxidectin, as I do not like the sound of a low safety margin.  This is where I love to read things, to take things I read and ponder on them.  Information is powerful stuff and I so do enjoy.  Back to the drawing board, I guess I won't chance to use moxidectin from the information you have passed on GalaBoys.  That is good...have a wonderful day, CynthiaM.


Two breeding groups of large fowl -- blue, splash and black cochins and buff orpingtons.     Located one half hour north of Vernon.  Also a keeper of the honeybees.

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#8 2014-12-21 15:15:59

GalaBoys
Banned
From: Alberta
Registered: 2014-01-14
Posts: 2298

Re: Secrets: re any new treatments for biting lice? thread

Glad to help CynthiaM. Some vets will only advise the usage of moxidectin as an absolutely last-ditch effort, if your herd has become resistant to all other dewormers.


Gala Partridge Chanteclers - see us on facebook
Maker of chicken saddles, fan of evidence-based poultry keeping.
2018 St. Paul Critter Market - May 19, 2018 - find our group on facebook

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#9 2014-12-21 16:23:18

Schipperkesue
Administrator
From: Carnwood, Alberta
Registered: 2010-04-08
Posts: 15558

Re: Secrets: re any new treatments for biting lice? thread

Here is a Moxiedectin fact sheet:

http://www.moxidectinfacts.com/questions.cfm


Embrace your mistakes....they are life's most meaningful education.

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#10 2014-12-21 20:06:04

Schipperkesue
Administrator
From: Carnwood, Alberta
Registered: 2010-04-08
Posts: 15558

Re: Secrets: re any new treatments for biting lice? thread

I bought some Quest yesterday and made it up according to directions and watered my chickens, turkeys, ducks and guineas.  Today they are all alive and very perky.  It took a lot of mixing to make it up though.


Embrace your mistakes....they are life's most meaningful education.

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#11 2014-12-22 02:23:09

CynthiaM
I Love A.C.E.
From: Grindrod, B.C. Okanagan
Registered: 2009-08-19
Posts: 5313

Re: Secrets: re any new treatments for biting lice? thread

I only popped in for a minute to check something, and I will re-visit the page on moxidectin.  Just need to know things, and as I mentioned before knowledge is so powerful, it is a very good thing.  It is time for me to worm the chooks....have a most awesome night, days to follow, CynthiaM.


Two breeding groups of large fowl -- blue, splash and black cochins and buff orpingtons.     Located one half hour north of Vernon.  Also a keeper of the honeybees.

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#12 2014-12-28 04:55:41

Denwendairy
Growing Member
From: Spruce Grove, Alberta
Registered: 2014-08-23
Posts: 33

Re: Secrets: re any new treatments for biting lice? thread

I disagree with some of the comments regarding the use of Moxidectin that have been made.  Many drugs can cause issues if not used according to label or on the recommendation of a veterinarian.
Moxidectin is safe for use in horses when used as directed.  Quest and Quest Plus are very effective equine dewormers with a wide range of efficacy. Adverse reactions in horses are extremely rare, even rarer when the product is used as directed.  I do not hesitate to use these products in my own horses.  But then, I use them as directed on the label.
Moxidectin is in the same class of dewormers as ivermectin (macrocyclic lactones) and can cause a host of issues in certain dogs.  This is one of the reasons that both ivermectin and moxidectin are only used under the guidance of a veterinarian in dogs in Canada.  If you use Moxidectin or Ivermectin, make sure you dispose of syringes/ packaging carefully, especially if you have one of those breeds of dogs who are adversely affected by these drugs.
I do not have any experience with moxidectin in poultry so cannot comment but strongly recommend you talk to a a a vet before using it for poultry, especially on the subjects of dosage and egg withdrawal times.

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#13 2014-12-28 15:35:24

GalaBoys
Banned
From: Alberta
Registered: 2014-01-14
Posts: 2298

Re: Secrets: re any new treatments for biting lice? thread

Quest's own studies show adverse effects on foals given just 2x or 3x the dose - turns them into dummy foals who cannot eat on their own, and require supportive care (IV and tube feeding) for several days before they return to normal. This means if the dosage dial on the syringe slips while you're dosing a foal, you're likely to lose your foal unless you can afford 24/7 veterinary care for several days.


Gala Partridge Chanteclers - see us on facebook
Maker of chicken saddles, fan of evidence-based poultry keeping.
2018 St. Paul Critter Market - May 19, 2018 - find our group on facebook

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#14 2014-12-28 17:06:46

Denwendairy
Growing Member
From: Spruce Grove, Alberta
Registered: 2014-08-23
Posts: 33

Re: Secrets: re any new treatments for biting lice? thread

Agreed, Galaboys.  It shouldn't be used in foals but it is not labelled for use in foals under 4 months of age where most of those foal issues occurred. 
There are many drugs that will cause harm at two to three times the recommended dosage.  Any time you use a drug off label or outside of the recommendations of a vet, there are risks that you assume.  I haven't had issues with the syringe dosage changing once set but I suppose it could happen and that would be scary if using it in a very young animal.  It would definitely be a very difficult thing to dose a chicken correctly.
Moxidectin is stored in fat cells and is released over a period of time.  Do we know that, if used off label in layers, egg residues are cleared in a reasonable amount of time?  I don't know the answer to this but would want to before I used it.
And now...back to my Christmas vacation!

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#15 2014-12-28 20:00:51

GalaBoys
Banned
From: Alberta
Registered: 2014-01-14
Posts: 2298

Re: Secrets: re any new treatments for biting lice? thread

I checked the FARAD charts for drug residues in laying hens and they don't have a listing for moxidectin.


Gala Partridge Chanteclers - see us on facebook
Maker of chicken saddles, fan of evidence-based poultry keeping.
2018 St. Paul Critter Market - May 19, 2018 - find our group on facebook

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