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  •  » Stone Man, it ain't over after all.

#1 2015-07-02 01:24:50

uno
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From: Enderby, BC
Registered: 2009-02-22
Posts: 5569
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Stone Man, it ain't over after all.

As I write this, the outcome is up in the air. Horse Daughter is undecided.

When she sold Stone Man to the bucking stock guy, the deal was that if he stops bucking, before they slaughter him, they are to call her and let her know. Today she got that call.

It seems that he has been to a few events and he bucks less and less and less and now just does a half-hearted crow hop while his rider spurs him and hits him with his cowboy hat. Then the horse walks around a bit until the rider hops off. Not what the rodeo stock guy wants to have happen!

HD is on the horns of a dilemma. She likes Stone Man. She likes him very, very much. She put in a lot of time with him, she took big risks with him. Immense progress was made and her hopes soared that he had been rehabilitated. From untouchable to standing for the farrier, being bridled, saddled, mounted and tentatively ridden. It was going like a fairy-tale, until the day without warning he piled her like a sack of potatoes. She got hurt, and if she's hurt and can't work, she will lose her home. She made the hard decision to sell him to the rodeo contractor who at first was quite pleased with him.

And now he's not bucking anymore. Does she want him back for the same amount she sold him for?

There is nothing she would love more than to make it work with this horse. But she also knows that even though he might not buck on command, he's still 100% capable of bucking when he feels like it. And can she convince him to never feel like it again? Is it worth the risk? Is it worth one more kick at the cat? Because at this point this horse has exhausted all his options. Slaughter is really all he's good for at this point. He's not a bucker, he's not a rider, he's just dangerous. Can she get him to change his mind?

She came here to talk to me and explore her options, which is code word for mom, can I bring him home so you can feed him and shovel poop? I admit I am a lot more set against having my heart broken than I used to be. It hurt when he left. I am so sick of that. I also don't want to make it too easy for my kid to do something foolish and get herself crippled or killed. My non-horse advice was sure, bring him home. Saddle him up. Load 200 pounds on his back and pony him up the mountain with your other horse. If he wants to buck, let him buck. Let him buck until he can't stand up anymore. Let him buck until his tongue hangs out and his eyes are rolling in his head, just don't be on him when he does it! My advice was to work the buck out of that boy for a long time until he's so sick of bucking that being good is easier. Bucking has got to become a very negative experience and maybe his life will be spared.

She left here undecided. She already has one horse here she picked up at auction that she's trying to rehome. Her financial resources are spread to the max and Stone Man needs to go where there is a round pen and facilities to work with him. The rodeo contractor says he's as wild as can be and no one can get near him, good luck getting a halter on him. He always did seem very willing to revert back to his range horse ways, happier in the company of other horses than with humans. But then Horse Daughter was the one person who could do anything with him. ONE PERSON. He's a one trick pony.

I feel hopeful and sick to my stomach all at once. I feel bad that she is torn, still, over this horse. Many have come and gone and gone is gone. But with Stone Man, he was an ache that lingered for her. SHe loved him. She thought she did the right thing by letting him go. And now?  Now here we are again. I do not know what will happen. IT's almost like there is no good outcome possible.

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#2 2015-07-02 02:41:41

Ruffledfeathers
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From: Cariboo, British Columbia
Registered: 2011-06-24
Posts: 1136

Re: Stone Man, it ain't over after all.

Oh uno I can see where the problem is,  the heart.  I don't think the answer will come easy, I feel for the both of you.


Never let your fears decide your fate !

(Formally M C Squared)

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#3 2015-07-02 04:25:30

uno
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From: Enderby, BC
Registered: 2009-02-22
Posts: 5569
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Re: Stone Man, it ain't over after all.

Crooked Coop, you nailed it. This horse thing is either elation or dirt eating agony. No in between.

Horse Daughter is of the mind that there are some horses who should be slaughtered. They are just plain nuts or too far gone to ever be safe. She does NOT believe in passing on these horses to person after person until they fall into the hands of someone who is happy to let them starve with overgrown hooves and jagged teeth, but aren't they happy, they are alive. No. Wrong. Not good enough.

I think she knows that the next decision will be to destroy him, and it's not a decision she wants to make. It's one thing for an injured suffering horse. It's another for a fit, beautiful, sound horse. But I agree that euthanizing him is the only option if she cannot rehabilitate him.

I hate this. I seriously hate this.

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#4 2015-07-02 05:28:35

mountainharvest
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From: Creston
Registered: 2012-01-30
Posts: 1308

Re: Stone Man, it ain't over after all.

:crying:   no, not an easy decision at all....I hope she makes the right one for her, Stony and you as well...and either of you regret it.  Only she can make that decision, and I think she already knows what needs to be done.  No one but HD will judge herself, and that judgment will be hard....I do not envy her position, and I can only imagine how hard this is on both of you.  Tough love, them darn horses.....


Small flock of mixed heritage chickens for glorious eggs, bee keepers, team of Percherons & of course cats and dogs, pedigreed Champagne d'Argent rabbits.  Wife, cheesemaker, baker, organic gardener, & pooper-scooper extrordinaire, and mama to two beautiful, energetic babes and number 3 'in the oven' and due in June!!

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#5 2015-07-02 16:35:03

Thor
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From: Vancouver Island
Registered: 2012-04-24
Posts: 952

Re: Stone Man, it ain't over after all.

No not a easy decision. I should know, I have two beautiful lawn ornaments in my yard, (possibly three). Both had been mistreated but in different ways. One was so abused she can no longer be ridden. Neither are "dangerous" on the ground.
What to do? rehome them? who wants a horse they can't ride? euthanize them?
No concrete answers to tough questions. So we keep them, 20 and 21 yrs old respectfully.  It would be financially easier if we had more land with pasture, we don't.
For us, it is the right decision, obviously made from the heart not the head.
I am confident that your Daughter will come to the right conclusion.
PS if we had the land we probably would take him, what's another lawn ornament or 3 or 4? Prettier than looking at a rider mower. In our opinion. whizzle

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#6 2015-07-03 01:07:04

turkeylover
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From: Gabriola Island
Registered: 2010-04-26
Posts: 1501
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Re: Stone Man, it ain't over after all.

I suppose she can always toss that pack saddle on him and take him to the hills, take him till the buck is out of him... I know old cowboys used to do that, swore by it, and i rode those horses, and they were the best saddle horses ever. Rode one little mare called Simmonette. She got her name because that's how far she had to go to get the buck out of her - the Simonette river.  Just looked it up, 100 km from where the farm used to be.  But she turned out to be the best little horse ever.  Tough one. Tough one for sure.

There's a piece of me that reads it and thinks this is the smartest horse around...seems he's got it all figured out from a horse perspective..  Buck to keep people off him and give him space, quit bucking and doesn't have to deal with the cowboys he doesn't seem to like. He just doesn't know the human element of the equation.


Life is full of things to do. Go do them.

Barnevelders, Welsummers, True Ameracaunas, Ossabaw Island Hogs, East Friesian Milking Sheep, Buff American Geese, Magpie and Welsh Harlequin ducks, Beltsville Small White and Sweetgrass Turkeys, Guinea Hens, German Shepherds, 2 cats, one loving husband who doesn't question the madness and a goat.

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#7 2015-07-03 01:41:02

uno
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From: Enderby, BC
Registered: 2009-02-22
Posts: 5569
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Re: Stone Man, it ain't over after all.

Simonette ... what a great story!

Today I talked with an old horse guy and his view on the situation was interesting. He said, just because the horse has quit bucking for the required 8 seconds, it does not mean that he's quit bucking. If he gets a sticky cowboy on his back who rides it out for 5 seconds, the horse might just give up and stop. However, can Horse Daughter ride out 5 seconds of rodeo style bucking? No. Not THAT bucking. So all Stone Man has to do is buck for 2 seconds, she flies off, then he's done.

For a professional bareback bronc rider, Stone Man is not a bucker because he does not go for 8 seconds. For Horse Daughter he is still a bucker for the 2 seconds it takes to eject her, so he will remain a horse who knows how to evade being ridden. In her hands he will always be a bucker.

This is a very plausible theory. IT does not make me happy. It has not stopped Horse Daughter from seeking out safety equipment she can borrow from a bull rider she knows. She wants to protect her neck. I'd guess she's planning on getting on him again. I just think I'd rather not know how this goes. I need to run away.

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#8 2015-07-03 13:08:49

Fowler
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From: New Brunswick
Registered: 2009-01-14
Posts: 5208

Re: Stone Man, it ain't over after all.

http://rlv.zcache.com/stunts_funny_bucking_horse_car_bumper_sticker-r45fd258afc304e6aab512791aa7f0efc_v9wht_8byvr_1024.jpg


Black Ameraucana

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#9 2015-07-03 14:48:50

toybarons
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From: Parkland County, AB
Registered: 2008-08-05
Posts: 3171

Re: Stone Man, it ain't over after all.

Crooked Coop wrote:

uno, your HD is now being foolish, she tried longer and harder than most sane people would and he is still dangerous. Trying again will change nothing, she will be hurt again. I really hope she considers how much good she has done and is still to do with horses who can be made safe. Your her Mom and I can imagine how terrifying this is for you. Tell her to take a step back, he's not worth being injured or killed just for the sake of her pride, some things just cant be fixed.

I agree. There have been many who have been severely injured just falling from a horse. Even pro bronc riders who know what they are doing. I'm all for not destroying a perfectly healthy animal. Normally I would agree to try everything other than having to go to the final solution. However, there are limits. This is one of them. HD has done more than most would have done for Stone Man. I agree that now it seems her decision is more about pride than common sense.


Taking things a day at a time.

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#10 2015-07-03 14:58:02

Sunfeathers
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From: Vancouver Island, North
Registered: 2014-05-15
Posts: 1195

Re: Stone Man, it ain't over after all.

If he were my horse and, due to horse-madness, I had thoughts of trying to rehab him, again.... I would take him out and trail ride mountains, streams, hills, forest. Long, long rides with someone else (would take some planning) maybe she could tag along with someone doing competitive trail conditioning? Riding where he has to think about where to put his feet and just trot along and get tired, provided he's reasonably fit. I wouldn't count on ring training not to provoke bucking. Bucking is really, really hard work and not something a tired horse is very motivated to do. The pack horse idea is a really good one. Ride all day, go on a cattle drive, pack all your gear. Even after all that, you likely have a horse that you can never fully trust. Personally, I don't think it's worth the risk to one's health but I do understand horse-madness and it can be VERY difficult to let go.

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#11 2015-07-03 21:26:45

heda gobbler
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From: Tatlayoko Lake, BC
Registered: 2009-01-26
Posts: 6878
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Re: Stone Man, it ain't over after all.

Can he even be kept with other horses?  Thinking of friends with pack strings - outfitters in the mountains etc.  They can't afford to have a horse that won't get along with others.  Or who will attack people  - guests, strangers etc.

I dunno Uno, rapidly running out of ideas.


Beltsville Small White Turkeys - White Chantecler chickens and Buckeye chickens
Highland Cattle, Shetland Sheep and Kerry cows.
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#12 2015-07-04 05:17:37

uno
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From: Enderby, BC
Registered: 2009-02-22
Posts: 5569
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Re: Stone Man, it ain't over after all.

Heda, he is not horse aggressive.  He was a range horse, only rounded up to be run into a truck, hauled to a rodeo, bucked, then booted back out on the range. He has always been more comfortable in the company of other horses than with humans. He did once attack a mini, but to be honest that mini was freaking out ALL the horses. He is not a problem with other horses. Having been one of the few geldings with a bunch of stallions he was used to being low man on the totem pole, as evidenced by his state of physical injury, inflicted by the several studs he was in a pen with at the auction yard back when HD bought him.

In the time we've had him, he has never attacked a human. Bucked them off? Yes. Attacked? No. In the beginning he was wild as the devil, fearful, bewildered. But he never pinned an ear. He did kick at anything that came at him from behind, but this to me, at that stage of socialization, did not reflect aggression but basic horse instinct. All horses kick as their first reaction to something frightening - until it's trained out of them. The stock contractor did not have any problem with him being human aggressive. In fact he is very calm and contained in the shoot, stand still and relaxed for the bucking strap to be place, no kicking, no pinning. And then when the gate is pulled he bucks a bit, crow hops, quits, walks around and stops. With the cowboy still on his back. Upset that he got a lousy horse and did stay on for 8 seconds of no bucking.

I said to HD tonight, maybe the best thing is to not even bring him home. Just let the contractor deal with him. They will. They didn't tell HD she HAD to come get him. They simply are holding up their end of a deal to inform her before they make any further decisions about him. I said, let him go, do not go back, do not halter him (if you can) do not kiss his nose (like you used to) JUST DON'T GO THERE!!

She said, " I'm excited to get him back and I am going to go bonsai Pirelli on his a$$, and I am going to play with him and round pen him and carrot stick him to death. It will be months before I even think of getting on him. I will load him with a heavy saddle and bags of chicken feed and pony him around. "  She is contacting a bull riding acquaintance to borrow a full face helmet and neck brace, she already has the protective chest vest.

BUT ... he is still in a pen of bucking stock and by the time he has run the crap out of her while she tries to catch him, and can't, she may just throw down the halter and say, that's it Bozo, you're toast. And she might leave him right where he is.

I am scared. BUt you know that one boyfriend you had when you were young and you knew he was bad news and you knew you shouldn't be hanging around with him but man oh man, he was shiny and beautiful and the very best bad news you'd ever hung out with? Well that is the effect that Stone Man has on  Horse Daughter. And yes, this is so dangerous and as a mother I hope she can't catch him this Sunday when she goes to fetch him. I hope he will have nothing to do with her. But if he drops his head and stands while she slips his halter on and makes the happy lip when she scratches his wither - it's going to be bad.

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#13 2015-07-04 05:35:11

heda gobbler
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From: Tatlayoko Lake, BC
Registered: 2009-01-26
Posts: 6878
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Re: Stone Man, it ain't over after all.

You are a wise woman Uno.

And you know with that handsome bad news boyfriend  - if your parents said ANYTHING bad about him or his influence on you well you'd keep after that boyfriend for years longer than you would have had they just kept their heads down and their mouths shut.  RIGHT?


Beltsville Small White Turkeys - White Chantecler chickens and Buckeye chickens
Highland Cattle, Shetland Sheep and Kerry cows.
www.tatlayokofold.com

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#14 2015-07-04 05:39:51

uno
I Love A.C.E.
From: Enderby, BC
Registered: 2009-02-22
Posts: 5569
Website

Re: Stone Man, it ain't over after all.

I have told her how I feel. I have made my feelings clear. She does not care. ;horse;

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#15 2015-07-04 11:48:11

Fowler
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From: New Brunswick
Registered: 2009-01-14
Posts: 5208

Re: Stone Man, it ain't over after all.

Can he ever be fixed to the point where she can be confident in selling him on to someone else?  She has no plans to keep him permanently, as I understand it.  She could get him all calm under her but then, down the road, have him hurt someone who isn't as talented a rider.  This is getting to the point where it doesn't seem so much about the horse.

She did good work.  Got valuable experience.  Take it and work on a horse that can realistically be rehabilitated and given a new terrific life.  There are no shortage of horses that need her ministrations.

That's just my opinion.


Black Ameraucana

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