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#1 2016-11-28 08:23:09

uno
I Love A.C.E.
From: Enderby, BC
Registered: 2009-02-22
Posts: 5569
Website

Continuing stifle lock saga

A brief recap of the situation.

Horse Daughter buys (mostly) Holsteiner warmblood who arrives unbroke, almost dies from shipping fever, is a determined bucker.

Horse Daughter nurses her through illness and after herself and another rider get piled badly she sends horse off to remedial bucking school with professional saddle bronc rider. A month of broncing returns horse with warning, hang on, this one really likes to buck.

From day one Horse Daughter has said, hmmm, this horse stands funny. She constantly cocks her hip, stands with one hind hoof out at a very weird angle. Looks as if she is in pain. Horse also displays constant head tossing and tail slapping when asked to do anything under saddle. The entire time she is being ridden she is cranky and oppositional. Everything is difficult and a challenge.

When horse swelled up in hind legs HD said AHA! Out comes vet number two. ( a previous vet, #1, had tested the horse for pain, poked and prodded, yanked and bent and declared the horse free of pain). Vet #2 checks it out and says bilateral stifle lock with beginner arthritis.

HD is devastated as the eventer career of her pricey warmblood goes down the toilet.

She hauls horse to vet #3, for live feed digital x-rays, to make certain of the arthritis and how advanced it is.
Vet goes through an aggressive and extensive series of flexion tests before he x-rays, to narrow down the site of the difficulty. After 20 minutes of bending and lunging, then more extreme leg folding and lunging the vet says, " I see no lameness or hesitation to move in this horse whatsoever. She is displaying no signs of stifle lock or arthritis. She does indeed look sore when she's at rest but shows zero soreness when moving. Therefore I see no reason to complete an expensive set of x-rays. Ride her hard for 10 days and if she lames up THEN call me and we'll investigate. Otherwise ... this might be attitude."

He also said, dope her up with bute and ride her. If the head tossing and tail slapping goes away when she's on bute you'll know she is reacting to pain. If you bute her up and she still is a stink under saddle, then you'll know this is behaviour and NOT pain.

So. Three vets. No diagnosis. A horse that stands funny and looks sore at rest, but moves just fine aside from head tossing and tail slapping. Thoughts?

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#2 2016-11-28 08:55:35

ross
Growing Member
From: Parkhill/Thedford Ont .
Registered: 2015-07-16
Posts: 54

Re: Continuing stifle lock saga

Personally I'd do as 3rd vet said or insist on X-rays . It's your dime . To me he diagnosed sour horse . I have seen horses just sour up from stress & do similar to this . One thought is the saddle pinching on the withers /not fitting proper . Your horse trainer says she bucks maybe it is just attitude . Luck

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#3 2016-11-28 09:17:05

uno
I Love A.C.E.
From: Enderby, BC
Registered: 2009-02-22
Posts: 5569
Website

Re: Continuing stifle lock saga

THanks, Ross.

Horse has any number of saddles (who has just one?) and that does not seem to be the problem. She does the same head toss tail slap bareback too.

HD is leaning towards buting the horse. She says at least it's one diagnostic that won't cost her anymore money since she already has the bute. Tonight she said if she ever gets to show this horse its show name is going to be Financial Ruin. This one has been a big money pit from the get go, worse than normal!

The horse has only just turned 4 and has been un der saddle for less than a year. Never been in a show. Only light arena riding. Baby steps for a baby mind. On the ground she is a big suck. Wants to stand with her nose in your ear and if she could sit on your lap, she would. Loves everyone. Under saddle, whole other ball game.

Of course what might have happened with this horse before we got her is anyone's guess.

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#4 2016-11-28 12:57:59

Schipperkesue
Administrator
From: Carnwood, Alberta
Registered: 2010-04-08
Posts: 15589

Re: Continuing stifle lock saga

I say bute the horse and see if her behavior is a response to work and a not to pain.

I will say one more thing but it may be so simple that you may roll your eyes and say, "Well of COURSE we have done THAT!"

Have you given her teats a thorough cleaning?


Embrace your mistakes....they are life's most meaningful education.

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#5 2016-11-28 15:27:47

susanr
Moderator
From: Grenfell, Saskatchewan
Registered: 2010-03-11
Posts: 4864

Re: Continuing stifle lock saga

Apparently, there are horse chiropractors around.  I've never seen one in action but, some of my horse friends have had one out for a horse or two.  Said it made a huge difference.  Just my thoughts.


Friend to 1 house cat, 2 long-haired mini dachshunds, several outside cats, one guard dog, a few Dorking chickens, several  Isa Brown laying hens, some mutt chickens and 3 mules.  Jobs include gardener and assistant bee keeper.

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#6 2016-11-28 19:44:58

uno
I Love A.C.E.
From: Enderby, BC
Registered: 2009-02-22
Posts: 5569
Website

Re: Continuing stifle lock saga

Sue, I do NOT roll my eyes at you as I know this is an issue that needs to be dealt with, an issue of comfort, but I will mention it to HD again.

Susanr, the horse has been seen by a horse chiro / acupuncturist / vet. I was a horse chiro skeptic but I have to say, I have certainly changed my tune after seeing the difference chiro and acupuncture can bring about. This was actually vet #1. But I believe it's worth another treatment, just to leave no stone unturned.

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#7 2016-11-28 22:03:42

Sunfeathers
A.C.E. Addicted
From: Vancouver Island, North
Registered: 2014-05-15
Posts: 1195

Re: Continuing stifle lock saga

I'd try buting her and see what happens.

My horse retired from show jumping because he started rearing and going backward. I got him and gave him rest and more rest. It worked in his case. It was a sore back with him but it had been called attitude. He's very good now.

I've ridden the bad attitude kind too and, mares in general tend to be more difficult. Has her mare-equipment been checked by a vet? Sometimes ovarian problems can cause pain and attitude. Grasping at straws here but you never know. My attitude mare did really well in dressage for a couple of years and then went on to a career in show jumping (with someone else). She was a bucker and kicker and had a bad attitude from birth. She was all-around quirky, whereas my gelding had very nice moments where you could see what a good worker he was. If he's painful anywhere he will let you know. He's a princess!

Good luck, I hope there is a happy result for your HD.

Last edited by Sunfeathers (2016-11-28 22:06:34)

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#8 2016-11-29 14:06:59

427Chevy
New Here
Registered: 2014-06-23
Posts: 8

Re: Continuing stifle lock saga

Horse has been seen by 3 vets and Chiro'd as well as worked on by Equine therapists and massage therapy. She's ridden in a CWD saddle that has been looked at on her by a fitter. Complimented by a nice soft anatomic girth and sheepskin half pad. Because she had damage around her poll she rides in a butter soft , monocrown, Vespucci bridle.
She is utterly pampered in the comfort department.

The horse was very cheap for her breeding and type. Her breeder said that from day one this horse had been difficult and quirky... all of her siblings from that one broodmare were difficult , no matter what stallion she was bred to. But this one was by far the worst, and the reason they got rid of that broodmare.
All of the other youngsters from this breeder (who sells all over North America) are started, super well handled, haul, all the important stuff done. This one came with the warning, " don't take her halter off and don't try to handle or lead her outside an enclosure".... and she wasn't kidding.
So there are definitely some temperament issues at play. However, she's not mean. NO kick, no bite. But a lot of resistance , launching herself into the air... and her specialty.... bucking. She's oppositional and defiant. Does not like being told what to do, more like despises it.

Hey stifle lock isn't even that bad, think that will improve with fitness. It's very intermittent and only occurs with certain movements.
Teeth are good, back is good. There may be lady part issues or stomach issues.... that could be the next route of investigation .

Stupid. Horse.

Last edited by 427Chevy (2016-11-29 14:08:49)

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#9 2016-11-29 14:53:34

susanr
Moderator
From: Grenfell, Saskatchewan
Registered: 2010-03-11
Posts: 4864

Re: Continuing stifle lock saga

Thank you HD for the information on the horse.  Greatly appreciated :D  She sounds like a handful but, with work could work out very well for you.  Temperament issues can be tricky to work with but, can be overcome for the most part.  Keeping my fingers crossed she settles down.


Friend to 1 house cat, 2 long-haired mini dachshunds, several outside cats, one guard dog, a few Dorking chickens, several  Isa Brown laying hens, some mutt chickens and 3 mules.  Jobs include gardener and assistant bee keeper.

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#10 2016-11-29 15:50:22

Sunfeathers
A.C.E. Addicted
From: Vancouver Island, North
Registered: 2014-05-15
Posts: 1195

Re: Continuing stifle lock saga

I should say that my bad-attitude mare was totally worth the effort. She was one of the best horses I ever rode and she taught me to ride with extreme precision, mainly to stay on her good side. I rode with a good trainer back then and we strove to put all her goofy energy into work and teach her that when the saddle went on it was work time and she must pay attention. She was the only horse I ever rode who could buck without putting her head down! How is that possible? Yes, she was a terrific athlete you could never take your eye off her even in the stall if she was even mildly annoyed she would try to kick you and, she meant to hurt you! She also had a nervousness about her and could be very sweet, too. Very quirky! But, when you got her paying attention and working relaxed, WOW, she was amazing.

Hopefully, your girl isn't that extreme in temperament quirks. Stay safe!

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#11 2016-11-29 21:26:42

uno
I Love A.C.E.
From: Enderby, BC
Registered: 2009-02-22
Posts: 5569
Website

Re: Continuing stifle lock saga

WHo is this 427Chevy person? I do not like them. Moderator, can we have a public banning, please?

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#12 2016-11-29 22:28:49

427Chevy
New Here
Registered: 2014-06-23
Posts: 8

Re: Continuing stifle lock saga

uno wrote:

WHo is this 427Chevy person? I do not like them. Moderator, can we have a public banning, please?

I've actually had an account here for quite some time, just don't post or really come here as it's "your thing". Or maybe because I forgot my password... whatever, doesn't matter.
But just so you know, I'm watching you...

Cheers!

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#13 2016-11-30 00:10:59

uno
I Love A.C.E.
From: Enderby, BC
Registered: 2009-02-22
Posts: 5569
Website

Re: Continuing stifle lock saga

Pffft. purplezfight

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#14 2016-11-30 00:42:43

heda gobbler
I Love A.C.E.
From: Tatlayoko Lake, BC
Registered: 2009-01-26
Posts: 6878
Website

Re: Continuing stifle lock saga

Thank goodness someone is watching you Uno!


Beltsville Small White Turkeys - White Chantecler chickens and Buckeye chickens
Highland Cattle, Shetland Sheep and Kerry cows.
www.tatlayokofold.com

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#15 2016-11-30 01:21:17

Crooked Coop
I Love A.C.E.
From: Saanich B.C.
Registered: 2009-07-17
Posts: 2170

Re: Continuing stifle lock saga

would you consider having her spayed? They can do it laparoscopically (sp) now, that may take care of the behaviour issues as well as prevent her passing on her momma's bad genes.....


Icelandic Sheep, heritage layers

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