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#16 2014-08-17 20:48:01

Ratzki
Active Member
From: Chilliwack BC
Registered: 2013-06-09
Posts: 171

Re: Breeder ?

debbiej wrote:

Ratzki wrote:

I seem to remember reading somewhere that once you have produced 5 generations of birds you have the right to remove the breeder's name where you got the original birds from. So now that the Gilmar Barred Rock line has in essence ceased, once someone produces 5 generations using her birds they can attach their own name to the line. Multiple persons could all be using her birds yet we could have multiple "new" lines.

Are you simply inbreeding Ev's Barred Rocks and calling them your own?  Or are you line breeding, out crossing, and working to improve the breed and after 5 generations calling the line your own.  Ev is keeping some of her breeding stock so the Gilmar Barred Rocks  are still hers

And as far as "Breeders " go there are puppy mills where people  pump out poor quality puppies  as fast as they can,  It doesn't make them "Breeders" in my opinion, just greedy money hungry people that don't care about the animals just the cash    :crying:

I was just making a comment on Breeders and the discussion at hand. That after 5 generations of birds that one does not have to refer to their line as that of where you obtained the original birds. I do not think that it matters if you outcross or line breed or whathaveyou. When did Shaver's birds quit being his birds in the formation of Ev's Gilmar Barred Rocks? Eventually Ev was able to produce a line of her own, but when did it start? I just said that I had read somewhere that this was a criteria to start to call a flock of whatever your own after 5 generations. I used Ev's "Gilmar" line as an example, that's it.

I agree with the puppy mill mentality along with you. My opinion on these hatchery style multi breed poultry farms is that of being not much better. I do not know how a person could breed much more then 3-4 breeds of poultry and do it well enough to be considered a breeder in that way. How could one have 10+ totally different breeds and get to know what traits pass well and which ones don't, as well as keep good shape, egg laying, colour, vigour, and hatch enough chicks to ensure continued success over 10, 15, or 20 different breeds.

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#17 2016-03-16 23:12:42

BobG
A.C.E. Addicted
From: Lower Rainland BC
Registered: 2014-03-06
Posts: 372

Re: Breeder ?

Lets revisit this , it kinda of fits in with the egg chick mill thread .

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#18 2016-03-17 00:48:43

CathyJK
A.C.E. Addicted
From: Near Invermere, BC
Registered: 2012-12-02
Posts: 1199

Re: Breeder ?

Breeds under the Animal Pedigree Act

The Animal Pedigree Act requires that an association be incorporated in respect of a distinct breed:
only if the Minister is satisfied that the breed is a breed determined in accordance with scientific genetic principles

In 1974, the Department of Agriculture created an Advisory Committee with responsibility to establish criteria for the eligibility of new breeds of livestock in Canada. The Committee suggested that new breeds be accepted which met the following criteria:

A population of animals propagated within a pedigree barrier which produces progeny possessing both a good degree of genetic stability as evidenced by phenotypic uniformity and performance levels for one or more economically important traits that offers a meaningful advance over breeds already recognized and/or established.

The key consideration for a distinct breed is the requirement for genetic stability. In practice, this requires that the pedigree background as well as the phenotypic (observed) characteristics of multiple generations can be assessed. Therefore, consistent with genetic principles, a distinct breed is a group of animals all coming from a common foundation population which exhibit recognizable breed characteristics in a uniform fashion.

So would it not follow that a breeder must be producing a breed that aligns with the Pedigree Act?
Curious.

Last edited by CATHYJK (2016-03-17 00:50:34)

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#19 2016-03-17 00:55:08

la-chicken
SOP Breeder
From: Caroline, Alberta
Registered: 2010-07-24
Posts: 979
Website

Re: Breeder ?

As I always tell my kids.
" Just because you can...doesn't mean you should"

What I mean by this is:  "Anyone can hatch an egg."  it is not a difficult process.  Actually, it is very simple.
BUT
Breeding is a whole different thing.
Breeding is knowing your breed inside out and upside down. Not just following the standard BUT knowing each bird and the genetic make up.
How each bird performs or even the lack of.

Uniformity and consistency in your follow generations is also key.  Not just the 1 in a 100 great bird.

This is how I see the difference of a breeder and not a hatcher.


Home to: Buckeyes: I am very passionate and devoted in breeding Buckeyes. I am a breeder that is always improving the breed.  I want to breed a buckeye that Nettie Metcalf would be proud of.
               Looking forward to getting the Canadian Buckeye Club up and running under the umbrella of American Buckeye Club.

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#20 2016-03-17 01:00:35

BobG
A.C.E. Addicted
From: Lower Rainland BC
Registered: 2014-03-06
Posts: 372

Re: Breeder ?

:iagree: :goodpost:

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#21 2016-03-17 01:03:47

la-chicken
SOP Breeder
From: Caroline, Alberta
Registered: 2010-07-24
Posts: 979
Website

Re: Breeder ?

CathyJK:
The loop hole for chickens is: there is no Pedigree Act.
What we do have is the APA- Standard of Perfection.  This is the the Association that has recognized breeds as what you could say" Pedigree". 
They follow the definition that you stated.

This is what I understand.


Home to: Buckeyes: I am very passionate and devoted in breeding Buckeyes. I am a breeder that is always improving the breed.  I want to breed a buckeye that Nettie Metcalf would be proud of.
               Looking forward to getting the Canadian Buckeye Club up and running under the umbrella of American Buckeye Club.

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#22 2016-03-17 04:16:53

toybarons
I Love A.C.E.
From: Parkland County, AB
Registered: 2008-08-05
Posts: 3076

Re: Breeder ?

la-chicken wrote:

As I always tell my kids.
" Just because you can...doesn't mean you should"

What I mean by this is:  "Anyone can hatch an egg."  it is not a difficult process.  Actually, it is very simple.
BUT
Breeding is a whole different thing.
Breeding is knowing your breed inside out and upside down. Not just following the standard BUT knowing each bird and the genetic make up.
How each bird performs or even the lack of.

Uniformity and consistency in your follow generations is also key.  Not just the 1 in a 100 great bird.

This is how I see the difference of a breeder and not a hatcher.

:iagree: :goodpost:

Especially the point of not just following the standard but knowing each bird and the genetic make up.


Taking things a day at a time.

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#23 2016-03-19 00:56:46

shaneb99
I Love A.C.E.
From: Strathmore
Registered: 2012-08-28
Posts: 1722

Re: Breeder ?

I buy chicks or eggs but no longer buy adult birds because I've become paranoid about disease.  But with chicks or eggs it's a bit if a crap shoot.  I have a "Marans" Cockeral which has a pea comb.  I put Marans in quotes because he's obviously an Easter Egger or at least has some Ameraucana blood in him.  I bought him as a egg from someone I thought was a reputable breeder and they probably are.  Mistakes happen.  But the onus is on me as a buyer to know what I'm buying or at least accept the risk.


Feather Feet - Light, Dark, Buff, Blue & Silver Laced Brahmas. And a whole bunch of other stuff plus 2 Akbash Maremma guardians who keep watch and a very patient wife who tries to keep me grounded.

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#24 2016-03-19 01:48:57

Schipperkesue
Administrator
From: Carnwood, Alberta
Registered: 2010-04-08
Posts: 15263

Re: Breeder ?

Shane, do you engage iIn the process of dipping your eggs in an antibiotic solution to prevent the spread of diseases like Mycoplasma?  I know of many people who will not let a live fowl on their property.


Embrace your mistakes....they are life's most meaningful education.

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