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  •  » Been brought up before, but seems to be getting worse?

#16 2017-02-09 15:29:12

Ipf
I Love A.C.E.
From: Salt Spring Island
Registered: 2009-03-01
Posts: 1616

Re: Been brought up before, but seems to be getting worse?

There are three distinct classes of genotypes (for dogs or any other sexually-reproducing creature).

Purebreds are generally homozygous (or "fixed") for the genes of interest, which are generally those affecting appearance. This has been achieved through many cycles of selective breeding, which pretty much always involves inbreeding. The good thing is that traits are predictable, and that those traits can be passed on to progeny. The bad thing is that a bunch of other genes get fixed by accident along the way, and these genes may govern traits that affect health. If the allele that is fixed is recessive, the trait will still be expressed, as there is no dominant allele to mask it. THeir progeny are predictable in appearance, and will generally closely resemble the parents.
First generation crosses will get one of the fixed alleles from each parent, so will be heterozygous at many loci, as different alleles are likely fixed in the different breeds. Expressed traits may be more like one parent or the other, or may be intermediate, or may (in some few cases) be different altogether. But there are two important characteristics of these first generation crosses. The phenotype (=what you see) will be fairly consistent, because each individual has the same genetic makeup at the loci of interest. So a first generation lab x poodle cross will be pretty similar to any other lab x poodle cross. The second thing is that deleterious recessive alleles that produce health problems when homozygous (as in purebreds) may be masked in the cross. The bad gene is still there, but isn't expressed, as it's paired with a good gene from the other parent. The appearance of offspring of first-generation crosses is not predictable.
Mutts, or any cross that isn't a first generation cross between purebreds, will also have the benefit of masked deleterious alleles, so will, like the first generation crosses, be generally freer of genetic diseases than purebreds. However they will not have predictable phenotypes, and neither will their offspring.

Last edited by Ipf (2017-02-09 15:32:15)

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#17 2017-02-09 20:59:59

lady leghorn
I Love A.C.E.
From: Okanagan Falls B.C.
Registered: 2011-10-26
Posts: 3147

Re: Been brought up before, but seems to be getting worse?

MGF............You understand, the prices are just out of reason.  The last two dogs one ours, and one our Grandson's, that lives 

with us, both Free.  Both rescues.   I don't mind paying something for a crossbred, but not these real high prices.  I realize

labradoodles have almost become a breed in some people's eyes.  But when you see husky, shepherd, lab, rotti, crosses for

really high prices, that is just ridiculous, to me anyway.   :duh:

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#18 2017-02-10 04:58:32

Funky Acres
A.C.E. Addicted
From: Bridge Lake, BC
Registered: 2013-10-14
Posts: 332

Re: Been brought up before, but seems to be getting worse?

I think part of the high price thing is a symptom of our 'status' society.
'Yes my dog is a so and so, I paid $$$$$$$'  for him.
And so it makes people somehow think that because they paid a lot for the dog ( also insert horse/cat/parrot) that they care more about their animal then someone who took in the neighbors dog because the neighbor got sick and had to move into a home.
I don't know it that makes any sense to anyone else. I had trouble writing it how I was thinking.


Me Hubby, daughter 2 1/2, son 14 days, 2 Tahltan Bear dogs, 2cats? Rode Island Red, Lohman, Astralorp and Americana cross chickens. Muscovy ducks, Touluse and Emdem geese.   5 horses, all of which hubby is training to drive. And one Tamworth/Large Black sow, assorted pigs of various ages. Two jersey cows.

Can't wait to get into rare and heritage breed livestock to go with our draft horses.

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#19 2017-02-10 13:03:34

Fowler
I Love A.C.E.
From: New Brunswick
Registered: 2009-01-14
Posts: 4980

Re: Been brought up before, but seems to be getting worse?

I would like to announce my new breed, the Capricihound.  Breed standard calls for no two animals to be exactly alike.  I will begin selling pups of this new and ever-changing breed this spring for the low low price of $2000 each.  Now taking orders.


Black Ameraucana

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#20 2017-02-10 13:24:27

killerbunny
I Love A.C.E.
From: Brockville, Ontario
Registered: 2012-07-30
Posts: 2862

Re: Been brought up before, but seems to be getting worse?

Wow Blaithin, I just saw the prices of some of those Pomsky pups. Very confused that some are offered CKC registered. That would be the dog of my nightmares. I have had 2 major dog attacks so far the second from a Husky and the first from the neighbours tiny Pomeranian. Unbelievable the carnage the tiny thing could cause.


Mixed collection of chickens, trio of Blue Columbian Wyandottes,BSW turkeys.
RIP Lucky the Very Brave splash Wyandotte rooster.
RIP little Muppet the rescue cat.

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#21 2017-02-10 15:54:36

Journey's End
Moderator
From: PEI
Registered: 2009-08-03
Posts: 2118

Re: Been brought up before, but seems to be getting worse?

WOW! I figured I'd check the prices of pomskys to see what you're talking about and :shock:. I most certainly didn't get that much for mine. Nowhere near. $4500?! I wouldn't even pay a quarter that for ANY dog, mixed or pure.


Homesteading, homeschooling, hillbilly mama of three.

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#22 2017-02-10 22:39:35

lady leghorn
I Love A.C.E.
From: Okanagan Falls B.C.
Registered: 2011-10-26
Posts: 3147

Re: Been brought up before, but seems to be getting worse?

Fowler......Put us down for two of your new weird and wonderful breed of dogs, lol.

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#23 2017-02-11 02:49:59

Blaithin
Moderator
From: Torrington, AB
Registered: 2011-12-19
Posts: 1052
Website

Re: Been brought up before, but seems to be getting worse?

I'll admit I was curious about pomskys because of the super cute photos that do the rounds (although I'm nearly 100% sure they're usually just Husky puppy photos!)

Didn't really want one for myself because Husky aren't my favourite and I've had Pomeranian experiences similar to killer bunny's. But I did look them up and the prices simply flabbergasted me.

A fool and their money indeed.

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#24 2017-02-11 03:30:09

heda gobbler
I Love A.C.E.
From: Tatlayoko Lake, BC
Registered: 2009-01-26
Posts: 6778
Website

Re: Been brought up before, but seems to be getting worse?

Here's my take:  I think people are looking for the ideal dog for their busy, urban, overscheduled lives.  Something cute, yes, and perhaps non shedding, but loving, undemanding and good with children.  Happy just hanging out when you are working or doing the school run.  They don't have lives or properties or sheep for border collies or hobbies for hunting dogs or the rodents needed for the endless energy of ratting terriers.  But pure lap dogs just aren't enough.  They want something big, easygoing and huggable and undemanding, good with children with no agenda of their own.  I find it is all a little sad but also - hello, this is how breeds are developed.  People for ages have been developing dog breeds for the needs they feel a dog could fill if it were only a little different from the existing breeds.  Of course most breeds aren't recognized for generations, they aren't just first crosses, as IPF points out. 

So I think I'd compare this to a mule - even if they are able to reproduce most people seem to want the first cross, don't they?  But the mule does serve a purpose and continues to be created.

I feel a little though it is hard to expect any dog to be the perfect suburban switch on-switch off dog. Relaxed but smart, loving but happy for hours doing nothing. None of my dogs can do that.   So people are bound to be disappointed.   Suspect this is why the high prices - people will pay anything for what they hope will be the "ideal" dog.  If it isn't ideal the cross won't recur or at least not at that price.  Early adoption sometimes has that cost.    How much did your laptop cost you?

I think if you can breed a dog and get that price while being honest about it - more power to you.


Beltsville Small White Turkeys  -White Chantecler chickens and Buckeye chickens
Highland Cattle, Shetland Sheep, Kerry cows and Canadienne cattle
www.tatlayokofold.com

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#25 2017-02-11 05:55:31

lady leghorn
I Love A.C.E.
From: Okanagan Falls B.C.
Registered: 2011-10-26
Posts: 3147

Re: Been brought up before, but seems to be getting worse?

Heda,  If that's what they want, too bad they wouldn't go adopt some of these older dogs, some that may have no hope of being

adopted.   They are so grateful.    .thumbsup.

Last edited by lady leghorn (2017-02-11 05:55:52)

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