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#1 2016-11-03 03:22:49

Shnookie
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From: Regina, Saskatchewan
Registered: 2013-04-19
Posts: 709

Cross-bred cockerels

I crossed my black Ameraucana rooster with a Basque hen, and got these two guys.  I find it interesting that they have the same parents, but look so different.  The all black one is 5 months old, and the barred one is 4 months old.  The body type of the all black one is more like the Ameraucana, and the body of the barred one is more like a Basque rooster.  If the all black one has barring, it doesn't show.  He does have a few white "eyebrow" feathers.

http://i1312.photobucket.com/albums/t529/chickitos/IMG_0000.jpg~original


http://i1312.photobucket.com/albums/t529/chickitos/IMG_0446.jpg~original


http://i1312.photobucket.com/albums/t529/chickitos/IMG_0448.jpg~original


Starting with Blue, Black, and Splash Ameraucanas and Red Cuckoo Basque (Marraduna).

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#2 2016-11-03 11:35:45

yardbirds
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From: just north of Yorkton, Sk
Registered: 2011-08-02
Posts: 9494

Re: Cross-bred cockerels

:cool"  beautiful result.  What do the pullets look like?  :D


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[ If you consider yourself a "gift" to all you share your life with....I promise you will always give your best.... ]

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#3 2016-11-03 17:43:05

Shnookie
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From: Regina, Saskatchewan
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Re: Cross-bred cockerels

Pullets?  What are those?  :rofl:   I sold the other ones that were in the first hatch when they were 7 weeks old.  2 were just starting to show gray barring, and the rest were all black.  At least three of the all black ones I sold were pullets (no white head spot as chicks).  The black cockerel in the picture was supposed to go with them.  I got the chicks mixed up and accidentally sold the customer a black pure Ameraucana (not sure what sex), and kept the cross-bred chick.


Starting with Blue, Black, and Splash Ameraucanas and Red Cuckoo Basque (Marraduna).

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#4 2017-06-03 19:26:19

Robbie
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From: Blackstock, Ontario
Registered: 2012-08-29
Posts: 1611

Re: Cross-bred cockerels

All 3 roosters are from this cross? The all- black rooster seems to have  no barring gene (not sure how that happened! He should have inherited one copy of the barring gene from his mother on the Z chromosome.....   Maybe Shane can explain that one. ?? That's why I love chicken genetics, sometimes the theory and the practice are very different!! ) The other two have one copy of the barring gene, each inherited from their mother. Pullets from this cross should have been all solid coloured.
If you cross those young   barred roosters with a solid coloured hen, you would expect 25% solid coloured hens, 25% solid roosters, 25% barred hens  and  25% barred males in the chicks. All the barred chicks would have a single copy of the gene.
My head is starting to hurt!! :D

Last edited by Robbie (2017-06-03 19:27:15)

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#5 2017-06-03 19:43:20

killerbunny
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From: Brockville, Ontario
Registered: 2012-07-30
Posts: 3010

Re: Cross-bred cockerels

Love the exotic look of the barred one!


Mixed collection of chickens, trio of Blue Columbian Wyandottes,BSW turkeys.
RIP Lucky the Very Brave splash Wyandotte rooster.
RIP little Muppet the rescue cat.

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#6 2017-06-04 02:26:35

shaneb99
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From: Strathmore
Registered: 2012-08-28
Posts: 1852

Re: Cross-bred cockerels

There doesn't seem to be much genetic info available. It shouldn't be possible if the Euskal Oiloa hen is barred.  The Black Ameraucana looking rooster is explained by the Black Ameraucana father probably carrying Extended Black, probably split E/eb+ otherwise all the chicks would be solid black. That would support what appears to be grey shank colour. That would throw at least half the offspring as unicolor black.

EOs are supposed to be Wheaten base Ewh/Ewh so the white spot you see on chicks is probably Wheaten colour not sex linked barring.  The cuckoo look is autosomal barring, the combination of the Pattern gene Pg/Pg and Ginger Db/Db. Because they are so light they probably also have some type of red diluter Di/Di. They also look gold based so the Silver Crele looking rooster would mean the Ameraucana father is Silver so the offspring are split S/s+. That should mean a light yellow hackle, this one happens to look silver. Maybe the effect of the red diluter.

Put this all together and you get the father:
E/eb+ S/S = Black Unicolour
Hen:
Ewh/Ewh Pg/Pg Db/Db Di/Di = Black Pattern Yellow/Creme with diluted black

That's my guess anyway


Feather Feet - Light, Dark, Buff, Blue & Silver Laced Brahmas. And a whole bunch of other stuff plus 2 Akbash Maremma guardians who keep watch and a very patient wife who tries to keep me grounded.

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#7 2017-06-04 13:48:45

Robbie
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From: Blackstock, Ontario
Registered: 2012-08-29
Posts: 1611

Re: Cross-bred cockerels

So that makes perfect sense then, if the barring on EO's is due to autosomal barring rather than the barring gene. As Shane says, autosomal barring is due to a combination of genes, and it's not sex linked. So the barring on EO's is very different from the barring on Barred Rocks.

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#8 2017-06-06 03:18:55

Shnookie
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From: Regina, Saskatchewan
Registered: 2013-04-19
Posts: 709

Re: Cross-bred cockerels

Robbie wrote:

All 3 roosters are from this cross?"

Only the all black one in the first picture, and the one with the really white head are from the same cross (same parents).  The solid black one in the middle picture was a pure Ameraucana cockerel off the same rooster as the crosses.  The barred one with orange and black and white in the last two pictures was a pure Basque cockerel.  The pullets from the same cross that I sold are all solid black.

More recent photos of them would probably help, but I hate Photobucket.  It takes me hours because I only have dial-up internet.  If someone has high speed and wants to put them up in a post, I can e-mail them.  I can also send a picture of the parents if people want to continue the discussion.


Starting with Blue, Black, and Splash Ameraucanas and Red Cuckoo Basque (Marraduna).

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#9 2017-06-06 11:35:18

Robbie
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From: Blackstock, Ontario
Registered: 2012-08-29
Posts: 1611

Re: Cross-bred cockerels

I checked with the experts on Classroom at the Coop, and the Marrunda EO's definitely have the barring gene, it's not autosomal barring.  So the all black rooster is still a mystery!

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#10 2017-06-06 19:39:10

shaneb99
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From: Strathmore
Registered: 2012-08-28
Posts: 1852

Re: Cross-bred cockerels

I'm not sure that they could be barred and still be solid black. I'd like to see the study that person on the Classroom references. There's not a lot know about them.


Feather Feet - Light, Dark, Buff, Blue & Silver Laced Brahmas. And a whole bunch of other stuff plus 2 Akbash Maremma guardians who keep watch and a very patient wife who tries to keep me grounded.

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#11 2017-06-06 20:11:54

shaneb99
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From: Strathmore
Registered: 2012-08-28
Posts: 1852

Re: Cross-bred cockerels

Robbie I saw your question on the Classroom and read the study by Campo et al.  They crossed a Single Barred EO rooster over a Black Spanish female and got a mix of barred and solid black males. That is what you would expect. But if you do it the other way, with the Black male over Barred female the males should all be barred. I wish they done that cross. They concluded that because the EO X BS cross worked as expected the EO were barred. But it still doesn't explain Shnookies situation.


Feather Feet - Light, Dark, Buff, Blue & Silver Laced Brahmas. And a whole bunch of other stuff plus 2 Akbash Maremma guardians who keep watch and a very patient wife who tries to keep me grounded.

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#12 2017-06-06 20:49:59

Robbie
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From: Blackstock, Ontario
Registered: 2012-08-29
Posts: 1611

Re: Cross-bred cockerels

I don't understand it either- unless he had a spontaneous mutation and lost the barred gene, somehow. It would be an interesting experiment to see what the black rooster's chicks would look like when crossed to a non- barred hen. Hint!!! Hint!!!!

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#13 2017-06-06 23:05:42

shaneb99
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From: Strathmore
Registered: 2012-08-28
Posts: 1852

Re: Cross-bred cockerels

Or repeat the first cross. I poised the whole question to the Classroom and no good answers other than the spontaneous mutation that seems unlikely. I'm sticking with the autosomal barring idea.. In reading through that I see the Db gene was mentioned along with Mh which I don't think is right based on the light colour. The EO is being restored and it seems there are more in Canada than almost anywhere so it's possible there are several strains. The naming refers mostly to the colour.


Feather Feet - Light, Dark, Buff, Blue & Silver Laced Brahmas. And a whole bunch of other stuff plus 2 Akbash Maremma guardians who keep watch and a very patient wife who tries to keep me grounded.

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#14 2017-06-07 00:50:47

Robbie
I Love A.C.E.
From: Blackstock, Ontario
Registered: 2012-08-29
Posts: 1611

Re: Cross-bred cockerels

There is something definitely weird going on with the marrunda barring. I can see that the roosters are barred, no problem....... but to me (and I have seen only photos, not the real deal) some of the hens don't even look barred at all, superficially. Although in this particular case, the hen must have been barred. I am not aware of a gene that would hide barring, especially on a rooster. How very odd! This will bug me.

Last edited by Robbie (2017-06-07 00:52:01)

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#15 2017-06-07 03:25:30

Shnookie
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From: Regina, Saskatchewan
Registered: 2013-04-19
Posts: 709

Re: Cross-bred cockerels

I remember seeing some posts on here about purple barring.  Could that fit in here somehow (genetically I mean)?  The mostly black cockerel had purple and green sheen.  I didn't notice it as barring, but maybe it could have been.

The two cockerels had the same parents, but were from different hatches a month apart.  The black one was older.


Starting with Blue, Black, and Splash Ameraucanas and Red Cuckoo Basque (Marraduna).

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